The current state of the seeding update

    • The current state of the seeding update

      A few days ago we received information that the manufacturing company Horsch teamed up with another farming game’s producer for an exclusive cooperation for the agricultural trade show Agritechnica.
      As part of this, Horsch cancels the collaboration with all other agricultural gaming companies. Therefore, we are obligated to remove all products and parts of the brand such as logos etc. and are not allowed to use any vehicles that we have built any longer.
      This circumstance unfortunately prevents us from delivering the seeding feature with the next update. Given this, we’ve decided to integrate the slurry tank wagon Stapel VT 18000 and make it available to you in the course of the week.
      We are in the process of building a new seed drill, which we’ll deliver as part of the seeding update as soon as it’s finished. No worries, we will keep you posted.

      We regret this decision very much, but nonetheless want to say thank you for the good cooperation and wish Horsch much success for the future. We hope to be working together again someday, we’d be looking forward to it.
    • Thanks MBB for informing us. Unfortunatelly sad news, but nothing can be done against it.

      Looks like some shadow and dirty intrigue of some game industry competitor, but hard to say. Maybe just somebody paid more for exclusive rights.

      Good luck.


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    • As I said above it sucks that this has happened, and who ever it was that made this a part of the deal between horsch and that publisher clearly doesn't care about their own company, because once it's revealed who it is that horsch teamed up with that company(we probably all know who it was/is) will most likely loose a lot of customers by pulling such a move. It's one thing to ask horsch to stop supporting other game devs but a whole other thing to ask them to tell those devs to remove everything related to their product, they could at least have made the deal in such a way so that MBB and other devs would be allowed to keep finished models in the game. It's also sad that horsch agreed to this but then again it all boils down to money and if horsch get's a decent royalty fee from that company they made that deal with then it's also understandable that they wouldn't want to loose out on that income.

      What has happened, happened and there is nothing to do about that, right now at least.

      One of the things I have read on the german forums is that there is a "fear" that other companies that shares their models and brand with Giants(where Focus home Interactive and Astragon are the publishers meaning they are sitting with all the power.) could come and pull their brand from MBB just like horsch has done right now and even though that's a possibility it's a very low possibility.
      The reason for this logic is that unlike other companies, Horsch has interacted a lot more with giants than any of the others, the latest being the big modding contest where you where given some assets to build horsch's testing facility as a map for FS, so in all honesty the fact that horsch ditched all other devs for giants(I'm assuming it's Giants/their publishers) should not come as a surprise but my point is, horsch has interacted a lot more with FS than all the other brands meaning that the chance for giants and horsch to team up was a lot higher than say giants and lemken teaming up, simply because they have a different bussiness relationship with horsch than all the other brands.

      So all in all it sucks that horsch made such a deal but there is no real reason to fear that other brands will do the same thing. There is also the good news that MBB still got brands like Lemken and Köckerling that also produces seeding equipment, so they wont have to go out and find a new brand nor will they have to create a non branded seeder(like Lizard in FS).

      Personally, I don't care that horsch is no longer part of CnC, I was never a big fan of their product anyway and I would rather have something like Kongskilde or Amazone seeders, plows and stuff like that. Of course if Horsch comes back and asks to become a part of the game then they are welcome but I hope that the devs will make sure to use what has happened here as leverage for a better deal.

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    • Jeytav wrote:

      As I said above it sucks that this has happened, and who ever it was that made this a part of the deal between horsch and that publisher clearly doesn't care about their own company, because once it's revealed who it is that horsch teamed up with that company(we probably all know who it was/is) will most likely loose a lot of customers by pulling such a move. It's one thing to ask horsch to stop supporting other game devs but a whole other thing to ask them to tell those devs to remove everything related to their product, they could at least have made the deal in such a way so that MBB and other devs would be allowed to keep finished models in the game. It's also sad that horsch agreed to this but then again it all boils down to money and if horsch get's a decent royalty fee from that company they made that deal with then it's also understandable that they wouldn't want to loose out on that income.

      What has happened, happened and there is nothing to do about that, right now at least.

      One of the things I have read on the german forums is that there is a "fear" that other companies that shares their models and brand with Giants(where Focus home Interactive and Astragon are the publishers meaning they are sitting with all the power.) could come and pull their brand from MBB just like horsch has done right now and even though that's a possibility it's a very low possibility.
      The reason for this logic is that unlike other companies, Horsch has interacted a lot more with giants than any of the others, the latest being the big modding contest where you where given some assets to build horsch's testing facility as a map for FS, so in all honesty the fact that horsch ditched all other devs for giants(I'm assuming it's Giants/their publishers) should not come as a surprise but my point is, horsch has interacted a lot more with FS than all the other brands meaning that the chance for giants and horsch to team up was a lot higher than say giants and lemken teaming up, simply because they have a different bussiness relationship with horsch than all the other brands.

      So all in all it sucks that horsch made such a deal but there is no real reason to fear that other brands will do the same thing. There is also the good news that MBB still got brands like Lemken and Köckerling that also produces seeding equipment, so they wont have to go out and find a new brand nor will they have to create a non branded seeder(like Lizard in FS).

      Personally, I don't care that horsch is no longer part of CnC, I was never a big fan of their product anyway and I would rather have something like Kongskilde or Amazone seeders, plows and stuff like that. Of course if Horsch comes back and asks to become a part of the game then they are welcome but I hope that the devs will make sure to use what has happened here as leverage for a better deal.
      I can't see this happen too often as you said Amazone isnt going to deal exclusivity with them if they know Horsch has priority.
      What does concern me is that they might do this with Claas but hopefully MBB has a signed and sealed contracted with Claas. As I Suspect Claas will be the head line brand for FS19 ( not confirmed just my opinion).
      It's not a major loss just more annoyance that they have put so much work into an asset they can't use.
      It only proves Giants is poooping themselves :D
    • Maybe I'm wrong, but I think the devs (MBB) are likely to be bound by the copyrights of the manufacturer and therefore we can't officially or unofficially talk about anything about HORSCH products. If there is direct manufacturer's request not to use any of models/logos etc. literally all what is connected with HORSCH can not be used.

      I mean, even if devs released some model from unknown author as somebody adviced above, or made free DLC the HORCH, the machines will be in the game as well. Who will be responsibile for breaking the regulation? MBB. It could cause some penalties or some more and disrupt game development.

      Those are likely the worst imaginations, but better not to try the luck.

      Someone could say that in last FS parts were many noname mods from John Deere, Claas, etc. (unauthorised in this time) but noone was interested about it and probably manufacturers didn't spot it and didn't have power to chase individual modders. But now when it looks like the big competition begins, someone could be interested in it and make problems. To report copyright breakings and I don't know what else to profit on it.

      I hope I'm wrong but in terms of big money, people changes. And devs are surely aware of it.


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    • Dylan81 wrote:

      Maybe I'm wrong, but I think the devs (MBB) are likely to be bound by the copyrights of the manufacturer and therefore we can't officially or unofficially talk about anything about HORSCH products. If there is direct manufacturer's request not to use any of models/logos etc. literally all what is connected with HORSCH can not be used.

      I mean, even if devs released some model from unknown author as somebody adviced above, or made free DLC the HORCH, the machines will be in the game as well. Who will be responsibile for breaking the regulation? MBB. It could cause some penalties or some more and disrupt game development.

      Those are likely the worst imaginations, but better not to try the luck.

      Someone could say that in last FS parts were many noname mods from John Deere, Claas, etc. (unauthorised in this time) but noone was interested about it and probably manufacturers didn't spot it and didn't have power to chase individual modders. But now when it looks like the big competition begins, someone could be interested in it and make problems. To report copyright breakings and I don't know what else to profit on it.

      I hope I'm wrong but in terms of big money, people changes. And devs are surely aware of it.
      First of all, let me clear something up here: Mods are perfectly legal and modders don't have to ask for any permission from companies to make mods with their names on them. The reason why that is, is because modders don't use the manufacturers brand to earn them selves money from using their brand, because that's when it gets illegal. (This is also why payed mod in a game like this could be a real grey area legally, especially if it shows profitable).

      There are two possiblilites here i think:
      1. One of the dev could release models they have made as an unknown modder and it would technically be legal, because it's not good practice to do so and if it was discovered Horsch would like not be fans of it, though they couldn't do anything about it.

      2. The employees of MBB has a NDA (Non Disclosure Agreement) as part of the Horsch deal and they could mean they are not allowed, not even in privat, to share anything about the mod in case of a deal cancelation. I find this unlikely though.
    • CallMeMegalo wrote:

      First of all, let me clear something up here: Mods are perfectly legal and modders don't have to ask for any permission from companies to make mods with their names on them. The reason why that is, is because modders don't use the manufacturers brand to earn them selves money from using their brand, because that's when it gets illegal. (This is also why payed mod in a game like this could be a real grey area legally, especially if it shows profitable).
      From my understanding this is pretty much correct (although the whole Fair Use law is very grey in regards to mods). As long as your mod is free then it is all fair use, they could possible do a Cease and Desist if you are hurting their image (which would simply stop you sharing the mod) but that would be about all they could do.

      The only way a modder could make money is by way of donations. These donations cannot limit access to the mods themselves though.

      I'm also sure MBB have/will have/should have something in their EULA against the selling of content made within their game/engine. (to cover themselves against legal ramifications).

    • I think what will happen will be MBB will set aside the model and after a year or two once Giants special relationship with horsch is finished then hopefully Horsch will allow the use of their name and MBB can release a free DLC with Horsch equipment... *Hopefully*
      But nevermind plenty more fish in the sea or should that be plenty more equipment in the shed ;)
    • JohnKalel wrote:

      I think what will happen will be MBB will set aside the model and after a year or two once Giants special relationship with horsch is finished then hopefully Horsch will allow the use of their name and MBB can release a free DLC with Horsch equipment... *Hopefully*
      But nevermind plenty more fish in the sea or should that be plenty more equipment in the shed ;)
      Exactly what I'm thinking they'll do, save the 3d models and then just wait and see what happens in 2-3 years time

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    • JohnKalel wrote:

      I think what will happen will be MBB will set aside the model and after a year or two once Giants special relationship with horsch is finished then hopefully Horsch will allow the use of their name and MBB can release a free DLC with Horsch equipment... *Hopefully*
      But nevermind plenty more fish in the sea or should that be plenty more equipment in the shed ;)

      that is stating the obvious, they are hardly going to delete files, so if Horsch change their mind in 2 or 3 years time and assuming that seed drill is still made, it can be refreshed to then's spec (both the spec of the seed drill and that of C&C spec)
    • b101uk wrote:

      that is stating the obvious, they are hardly going to delete files, so if Horsch change their mind in 2 or 3 years time and assuming that seed drill is still made, it can be refreshed to then's spec (both the spec of the seed drill and that of C&C spec)
      I was merely offering an alternative scenario to releasing the horsch equipment through an un-named modder as a free dlc...
      It sometimes helps to point out the obvious from time to time to keep things in perspective.
    • Well, it is a bad news about Horsch. But I think that we can look forward to some Mods (not from MBB) in the near future. We are working on the JD tractors at the moment - blender mmodels are ready. And will look at some of the Horsch seeders in the coming weeks. That will say, that we will start on the 3D mod's in Blender. The finishing work will first be done when we got some more infos from MBB for the modding in C&C. But the main work is anyway in the 3D mod's. So, if some of you have some detail pictures, send me a PM and you get my e-mail.
      Programming today is the race between software engineers building bigger and better idiot proof programs, and the universe producing bigger and better idiots.

      So far, the universe is winning.....
    • Ok mates, thanks for an explanation of mod's legality. That's what I didn't know, respectively I have never thought about it. I always did some small mods, or edits just for myself. Never mind. I'm taking back the fourth paragraph of my OP.

      And I agree with other posts.


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    • Jeytav wrote:

      Well that sucks but honestly that just how it goes and that gives me thge ability to suggest Kongskilde as a substitue company, they make a ton of agricultural machines, and I have always loved using their machines. So yeah just throwing that out there :) kongskilde.com/Agriculture
      @Jeytav

      Did try to contact Kongskilde today but no answer on the phone, guess due to the vacation. I have sent an e-mail and will try to contact them the coming week to get permission to make mod's. Would be nice if someone could make a priority list (what first should be done), so that I could make some plans. But remember - I still have a normal job, so to do the mods will take some time. After we have to test them too.
      Programming today is the race between software engineers building bigger and better idiot proof programs, and the universe producing bigger and better idiots.

      So far, the universe is winning.....
    • MadCat71 wrote:



      Did try to contact Kongskilde today but no answer on the phone, guess due to the vacation. I have sent an e-mail and will try to contact them the coming week to get permission to make mod's. Would be nice if someone could make a priority list (what first should be done), so that I could make some plans. But remember - I still have a normal job, so to do the mods will take some time. After we have to test them too.
      As I wrote further up in this thread: You don't need permission from manufacturer to make mods, unless you plan to sell them for a profit. In that case you need a license and that's not cheap.
    • ^ Firstly, we are moving slightly off topic here

      [offtopic]
      Secondly as @CallMeMegalo says above you are legally allowed to make mods for PC games and release them to the public as long as you don't demand payment. Branded mods for console seems to be different, I do not have much experience with console modding so I'm just basing this on how FS17 works where you are only allowed release mods for consoles as long as the game the mod has been made for has paid for the license to use that brands products and their name.

      With that said it's perfectly fine to ask for permission and that way you may even be able to get some bp showing dimensions and some other stuff(HEX for the colors etc) so you wont have to drive out to a farm or a agricultural dealer ship to take pictures and measurements + it may be a good way to introduce certain companies to games

      @MadCat71 yes the big industry vacation just hit denmark. I would however suggest emailing them asking about specific models and attaching pictures of your previous work and links to agricultural games (Cattle and Crops) and then hope that the person reading you email is familier or hopefully a gamer :P
      [/offtopic]

      Not sure what to say to keep this post on topic sooo??
      Looking forward to spread some slurry? 8|

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