Global Market Idea - Translated

    • Global Market Idea - Translated

      This is a translation of @Dinerels global market idea thread.

      I decided to translate this thread because I wanted to give the English community a chance to read it can come up with their own opinions on the matter. I also translated it so I could put english reference links next to the relevant ideas in the Ideas for the gameplay in Cattle and Crops thread

      Here it is:

      I (Dinerel) have tought about a global market idea. I have already discussed the topic at hand with some of you and have since then refined my idea and here is what I have come up with so far.

      What is important to me is to have a market that can’t be influenced solely by a single user but by the community as a whole.

      I imagine that any merchandise that can be bought and sold in singpleplayer mode can be sold in the global market as well. I call it the online market.

      Below are 2 images that I have created as an example of how it might look/work.

      These Images are not official in any way but merely a concept art made by @dinerel
      There is no way to prevent these from spreading but if you do upload them anywhere else then please make sure to note that these are not official.

      The principle:

      The goods must be unloaded by a dealer in the city. The dealer has a back yard with a silo. Here you can unload Ccorn for example and put equipment.
      This way you can via the onlinemarket choose and sell crops and equipment that you have unloaded/put in the dealers back yard.
      When the player picks something and puts it up for sale it disappears from the dealer and will no longer be available to the player and will instead appear on the online market where other players or the player himself/herself can buy it.
      When a player buys a product from th online market, the money will be withdrawn from their account and the product will appear in the dealerships backyard and the player can then go pick up the product(Crops will be in the silo and equipment will appear on the ground) If you leave your product in the silos for too long the quality will degrade and the quantity might also decrease.
      I imagine that every 24 hours, 10% of a specific crop quantity will be deducted. Livestock left in at the dealer wont be fed/milked and will loose weight and become sick. Equipment will start degrade (e.g rust).
      If a player buys your product then 95% of the price will be transfered to your bank account and the remaning 5% goes to the dealer as a commision fee. The commission fee is there to prevent the players company from using onlinemarket as a storage place.(For example you store 100 tons of wheat and set the price at 10.000 euros, then all you would have to do to get it back would be to buy the wheat youself but instead of getting 10.000 back when you buy it you only get 9.500 back which should prevent most from using this method)


      In order for the good to be comparable they must under go a quality control.
      This quality ranges from 0-100% and the calculation should be obvious.
      The quality can be used to compare the different goods and to calculate and average value of the goods on the online market.

      Here is 2 examples based on the pictures above:

      Example for cows:
      The quality of cows is calculated using 4 different controls.
      • Health takes up 30%.

      • Weight takes up 30%.

      • Age takes up 30%.

      • Fertility takes up 10%.

      The health of our cow is 83% of 100%, so our cows health is 83% of 30% this part takes up in the quality control (24,9%).

      The weight is based on the average maximum wieght of a cow (depending on the breed). This time the maximum avg wieght is 544 kg (1200 lbs) and our cow weighs 220 kg (485 lbs) which is roughly 40% of the avg weight equals then 40% of 30% (12%).

      The age is based on the average lifespan of an cow. Our cow can become 20 years old, and it’s current age is 3 years and 3 months so that means still has 16 years and 9 month left to live which roughly equals 84% of it’s life time is left, so 84% of 30% (25,2%).

      if the cow is pregnant you can add 10%. our cow isn’t so we wont add the 10%.

      So the quality of our cow is: 62,1% - ”(83*0,3)+(40*0,3”)+(83*0,3)+(0*0,1) = 62,145%.”

      Example on corn/maize
      Corn/Maize is calculated using 3 different oontrols.
      • Moisture level takes up 50%.

      • Nutrition levels takes up 35%

      • Organically grown corn/maize takes up 15%

      I came up with an optimal moisture level of 20%. Our corn/maize has a moisture level of 13% which is 35% of the 50% - (20-13)/20.

      For nutrient levels (Here we only have carbohydrates) the max is 100g / 100g. Our corn/maize has 63g / 100g so 63%, which in turn means we need to find 63% of 35%.

      If the corn/maize has been grown orginacally it will gain 15% in quality. Our hasn’t been grown organically.

      So the quality of our corn/maize is: 39,55% - ”(35*0,5)+(63*035)+(0*15) = 39,55%.”

      Market regulation:

      Based on the previous calculations of quality, we can now see if a player has offers that are significantly cheaper than the normal price. However in order to see this we need to calculate an average price based on the individual quality.

      Let us take our corn/maize as an example
      The current average market value for corn/maize(That is completely dry, has 100% carbohydrates and has been grown organically) is $2172 USD / ton. So to find out corns/maize value we need to find 39,55% of $2172 USD, so if we do 2172*0,3955 we should get $859 USD / ton for our corn/maize. Which gives us a total sum of $13.491,01 for our 15,7 tons of corn/maize.

      Of course we can set the price our self as long as it isn’t too cheap, If we offer our corn/maize(about 6 tons) for $12.000 USD, our own corn/maize(With a quality of 100%) would be worth $1930 USD / ton
      If a person provides, calculated on the whole CnC account within 1 week, a price that is more than 3 times below a fixed limit,e.g 30% below the current market value, then the offer will be deleted, instead of simply ”put on hold” and the product will be lost. Offer that are too cheap will be treated as such after 1 week.
      By using a method like that it should be possible to prevent a person form flooding the market with cheap goods.

      Calculating Average Market Value:

      The market price above the average should not be limited. A slow/small increase in value should not be relevant. If you want to sell your corn/maize for $50.000 USD / ton then you can.
      With the following method it would only be possible for a lot of accounts to decrease the market value and not just a few. I deliberatly wrote accounts and not account, because an account with several game characters can’t affect the market price more than an account with a few characters.
      First of all, the average of the account must be calculated for each type of products.

      Using corn/maize as and example again.

      Account Dinerel:

      Character 1 has 3 offer on corn/maize

      5 ton at 35% for $2k USD would at 100% give $5,7k USD

      6 ton at 40% for $2,9k USD would at 100% give $7,38k USD

      10 tons at 51% for $11k USD would at 100% give $21,56k USD

      That gives an average of $1,64 USD/ton of corn/maize with a quality of 100% for character 1

      Character 2 has an average of $1,96k USD/ton

      Character 3 has and average of $2,25k USD/ton

      Average for all Dinerels accounts = (1,64+1,96+2,25)/3 = $1,95k USD/ton

      After that all accounts that offers this product have accumulated. In order to give a basic basis, MBB gets mixed in here and influences the prices with 5 account that has a fixed price.

      Average for Dinerel = $1,95k/t
      Average for xyz1 = $2,51k/t
      Average for xyz2 = $2,12k/t
      Average for xyz3 = $1,99k/t
      Average for xyz4 = $1,95k/t
      Average for xyz5 = $2,2k/t
      Average for xyz6 = $1,98k/t
      Average for xyz7 = $1,81k/t
      MBB1 = $2,2k/t
      MBB2 = $2,2k/t
      MBB3 = $2,2k/t
      MBB4 = $2,2k/t
      MBB5 = $2,2k/t

      If we add all these number together and divide them with 13(the amount of present accounts) we get average of $2,11k/t and to find our lowest price limit(30% below global average) we only need to multiply 2,11 with 0,7 which gives, 2,11*0,7 = $1,48k/t.
      This information is for a quality of 100%

      Looking at this we can see that 2 of my accounts offers are below 30%
      Offer 1 $5,7k / 5t = $1,14k/t
      Offer 2 $7,38k / 6t = $1,23k/t

      Different Markets

      It is possible to create your own private markets. The global market is always present.

      I click on the ”add to market” and create a market named ”Dinerels market” this new market will be treated as a private market, which means only people who know the name of the market can add it to their markets and see the offers in that market and buy from it.

      The goal is that I can create a market to share with my friends to prevent thousands of people to participate in it.

      And that is the end of the thread.

      i5 4690k - 3,5 Ghz, EVGA gtx 1070 ftw hybrid - 8 gb vram, 16 gb 1600 Mhz ddr3 ram
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    • Haha thanks, both of you. This is basically just me in a nutshell. I love to do things like this, because it helps keep my mind busy and when the product is finished it fills me with joy to see people appreciate what I have done even if it's only a single person. I do it as a way to help the community as a whole and I find great joy in that.

      i5 4690k - 3,5 Ghz, EVGA gtx 1070 ftw hybrid - 8 gb vram, 16 gb 1600 Mhz ddr3 ram
    • I maybe missing something here, but what exactly is the impetus for me to buy other peoples crops in any notable quantity that would make it viable for the seller, be it wheat, barley, oil seed rape (canola), corn, etc. etc. etc, given the proposal would create a market slanted much to the buyers favour and IMO is intrinsically floored.

      and even if I don't have wheat, barley, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. why would I need such quantities so quickly that I would buy it, even if I was so feckless at planning ahead and running my farm?

      the only market I can see for in essence buying from another player via a centralised portal, would be relatively small purchases of root crops etc for someone who wanted to do large scale livestock farming, but couldn't be bothered to do root crops but instead concentrates on the grass/chaff and straw, while their wheat/barley grains are more a by-product with commercial value which they will have large amounts of after each strew cycle, which would more than cover the cost of buying root crops etc.

      sure I can see want for collective player influence on a centralised sale price through supply vs. a theoretical background demand that is pulled out of the centralised crop sold totals every 15min/30min/45min/60min based on the number of people currently playing, so collective oversupply by players drives the price down and collective undersupply drives the price up.

      but including supply vs. theoretical demand, if people wanted some IRL factors to influence price, then centralised prices could also track the average of the IRL commodity (relatively slow changing) and 2 or 3 other unconnected commodity's that are traded 24h/day (faster moving) like Brent/crude oil, wholesale gas, gold, silver, platinum, etc etc ect, then for example factor in the currency used for your game save (£$€ etc.) vs. currant exchange rate fluctuation, which when averaged and normalised and any IRL exchanged rate applied would be your price when you sell crop into the centralised system.

      maybe something else that a centralised supply vs. demand thus price and availability could work for is NEW equipment, if peopled opted into that, medium size NEW tractors could be harder to get and more costly (relative) than NEW larger or smaller ones, ones that have high availability are more likely to have lower prices or suddenly be an sale, which is something that could stimulate a second-hand market in medium size tractors, which would see second-hand medium size tractors rise in price, or could see people gravitate to NEW oversize large tractors or more NEW smaller tractors, which would see their availability drop and price rise, while the NEW medium size tractors availability would recover etc etc, which would cause an ebb and flow in machine price.

      exchange rate on its own could give some different challenges too, principle crop price could be based on $-USD, machinery could principally be priced in €-EUR, while financial services (loans etc.) could be based on £-GBP, which would give different gameplay dynamics that feed off world events dependent on which you use as your currency in your game-save, a resurgence of € and £ vs the $ due to how Trump's tenure plays out, a resurgence of the £ and € due to how Brexit plays out (positive outcome for both), or a fall in the € due to due to instability within the EU union or another member state deciding to exit, or a resurgence in the £ due to UK and EU failing to reach agreement after 2 years which sees the UK form new trade ties with the rest of the world while trading with select EU partners under WTO rules, etc. etc. etc.

      the only way I can see livestock being viable to buy, or crops being viable to buy, is if there is a mechanism of breading from having multiple sub-types of e.g. cows which given some time and some luck in having a diverse heard could see cows with very high milk yields etc which could attract very high prices each as breading stock, the same with very high quality high yield crops, from having multiple varieties of e.g. wheat growing on your farm in proximity which given some luck produces grain so good its primary use is seed, which others could buy and would attract a high price per tonne.
    • I understand what you mean, and I sure the idea might seem less appealing to some.

      While this isn’t my idea I do see some potential in it in many ways and I’ll try and answer all your questions etc heavily influenced by my own opinion because it would just be my opinion/examples.

      Let’s say that I start a new career and I wanna go for a pure organic play through, this means I need equipment like weeders etc but I also need to fertilize my soil the best way to don that is by using slurry/manure the problem here is I don’t have any and without the global market I would have to use inorganic materials and I don’t want to do that, this is where the global market could come into play because there must surely be someone out there who has an excess of slurry/manure that they just want to get rid of(Where I’m from you can get permission to use slurry/manure from conventional farms if you don’t have any left and you need more etc the permission just says that you can use conventional slurry/manure and still maintain your organic status) so that’s one way to use the global market.

      Let’s start a new farm, this time I wanna go for pure livestock farming so no harvesters etc I only have grass fields, and equipment to grow corn(except for a forage harvester, this one I’ll have to lease/rent/borrow) with this I can make both grass and corn silage but I still need straw for bedding and other crops for the feed-mix and without a global market i would have to buy some premade packages with this stuff but with a global market I could buy the ingredients I need and possibly a lot cheaper, but I still have one problem left, I’ll at some point begin to produce more slurry/manure than I can use, that means I’ll have to sell it, I could sell it to a biogas facility that uses this but I could just sell it on the global market where farmers like my previous character could buy it.

      Let’s now say that these 2 characters decide to make a deal. The organic farmer will provide the livestock farmer with organically grown products, for a reasonable price and then the livestock farmer will provide the organic farmer with slurry/manure produces using his organic products for a reasonable price as well. This way it’s a win/win for both parties.

      I don’t think it would be a good idea to irl stats with the global market in the game. The only stats that should be included is the average price for a commodity when the global market opens but that’s just a way to set a starting point and then from that point on the price will only be influenced by the players.

      I also think that it would be a bad idea to start using live currency exchange rates in the game, it would be much better to use a fixed exchange rate if they are going to add several different currencies. Not that I’m against such a thing it’s more because I think that we do need to also try and keep some things simple.

      I’ll agree with you on the livestock, it would require a breeding system etc, but that is also something that has been suggested and so far we don’t really know much about how the livestock is going to work.

      Now as a last remark the only problem I can see so far is how the global market would work when we start to calculate in the amount of hours a player plays the game and what timescale they are using but until we get our hands on the game and figure out how it works we wont be able to come up with a proper theory.

      i5 4690k - 3,5 Ghz, EVGA gtx 1070 ftw hybrid - 8 gb vram, 16 gb 1600 Mhz ddr3 ram
    • So far, by quickly reading i see a few problems with this system.

      1) money hacks/mods. This have to be forbidden or regulated with in the trading system (think some One mentiond a sugestion in this One) I for one would love if you could have your own market where i can chose which players i whant to be apart of it. This way i can kick out people who use money cheats or any other mod that could give them a severe advantage.

      2) the different difficulties. If some one who play in easy mode and don't have to fertilise and plow every year he will be able to sell his crop way cheaper then the others. Same goes for livestock etc. By makeing a market for each difficulties that could be fixed, but then we need fixed ones so every one in a difficult bracket plays with the same rules.

      3) overflown market. I'm afraid that so many will have more crop, manure, livestock etc then they need and will try to sell this to the market. Prices will drop quickly because I'm sure that alot more people will be selling then buying. (This is just an asumtion and maybe this will not be a problem at all)

      All in all the foundation of this idéa is great but there is alot to work with imo. Would Love to se this in the game if they manager to make it good.
    • To answer the first one, I suggested that only save games using "certified" mods can access the global market to prevent money hacks etc.

      The second is actually pretty valid and one of the ways to fix that problem would as you said be to add a market for each difficulty level, not saying that it's the perfect way but it could work. guess I'll have to think a bit about that one before coming with my own idea.

      Yes the chance of overflowing the market is there, but there is also the fact that some might only want to buy while others are only interesting to sell while yet another group want to do both and then we have the people who wont even use it.

      i5 4690k - 3,5 Ghz, EVGA gtx 1070 ftw hybrid - 8 gb vram, 16 gb 1600 Mhz ddr3 ram
    • If someone is playing on "easy" or "arcade" mode, I find it doubtful they would even want to bother with a global market that would take more time and effort than cheating or buying whatever they needed from the village shop.

      I could see this as potentially a good tool for trading used equipment and selling breeding stock, maybe a good tool for trading manure/slurry and livestock feed. I'm not so sure about trading crops outside of what you would use for livestock feed. Now if CnC implements a way for us to grow crops for seed than that could make the market very relevant. I could make much more money selling hybrid organic maize seed on the global market than I could selling it to the local grainery. Though selling for seed would require a completely different set of rules, and new game dynamics.

      I see this as a very good way to not only sell used equipment to struggling new players, but also a good way to lease equipment to other players. If I buy a brand new Claas combine, I will only need it for a short while to harvest my fields. The yest of the time it would sit in a shed rusting away. Instead, I could lease it to another farmer on the global market who cannot afford a new combine with the latest technology. Now my combine can earn me money in the off season when it would otherwise go unused.
    • ___________________

      I love the idea as a whole but I am doubtful in some of its uses. Good for animals and vehicles, not so much grain at this point in time.

      Inevitably I think it isn't going to be used by a majority of players other than for its face value and role playing aspects.

      I believe that eventually after a period of time the market will become so saturated that you will not be able to sell anything on it. (Or at the very least really struggle to)


      I love the idea of being able to sell your used equipment, lend machinery etc. (great for role play and new players) but can't see it being used much once the games been out for a while. I can't see a way to work around the saturation issue.

      I love the idea of being able to sell livestock etc, but that market will become extremely saturated. The only way to get this to work would be to be able to have different breeds etc and bulls and what not and have it so that only 1 in 10 or whatever amount works could be sold to market. If you think about it every cow makes a few calves. Every calf that grows up makes a few more... eventually you have a flooded market nobody would use as you cannot sell your livestock on there as no body needs to buy any. It would work fine for a little while but after some time would become useless. (Other than for new players and role playing)

      And the only way I see grain working would be to have different seed varieties that yield better/worse in different conditions. Only then would grain be used to some extent. After a while everyone would have the variety that works for them and then wouldn't buy anymore so it also becomes a novelty.

      With buying grain to feed livestock I guess this could work to some extent but in the end the livestock market isn't going to work very well as it stands so I'm unsure on this idea.

      Overall I think it has great role playing aspects and a few pros and many cons. I can't see it being useful too far into the games future once everyone has everything the game could offer.

      MBB have stated they want the games difficulty settings to be very diverse and scalable so I'm not sure how the different difficulty settings markets would work as MBB don't intend to have simply easy/medium/hard etc.

      This is just my opinion. I love the idea, I just can't see it being useful given time and I honestly can't see it as something MBB would want to spend all that time making just to have it work for say 6months and then only cater for the role play aspects it brings to the game.