Mod ownership etc.

    • Mod ownership etc.

      SHoe In Turd (being polite), I was hoping I could GET AWAY from all the HASSLES N BULL(SHoe In Turd) that go on with other games. ALL I WISH TO DO IS HAPPILY PLAY A NON VIOLENT STIMULATING, CHALLENGING game AND IF SOMEONE THROWS IN A GOOD MOD, HEY GREAT, if I don't like it I delete it.. I can't mod(little old n to techo for me) so it's good to have. PLEASE STOP ALL THIS ME MY MINE, n LET'S JUST PLAY A AWESOME GAME WHEN IT IS OUT(I'll wait as long as it takes for them to get right) :thumbup: and have a FARMING COMMUNITY that works like I remember in the old days,"Hey I done this but if ya got any suggestions let's work together n see what happens. MM I see you've done that but would this help??". :thumbsup: MONEY :cursing: ,SORRY, SHOULD NOT REPEAT NOT BE INVOLVED. If I COULD mod it would be for just the SHEER PLEASURE n FUN of the game n community. If this turns out to be JUST ANOTHER BUN FIGHT like the other games(I think you all know which ones) then I'm gunna Pull the Pin. AND I'M SORRY FOR THE GUYS/GALS THAT ARE PUTTIN ALL THERE TIME N EFFORT INTO GETTING THIS GAME UP N RUNNIN and HAVIN TO LISTEN TO ALL THIS SHoe In Turd. <3 STOP IT repeat STOP IT it's spoiling my anticipation of this game.
    • All mods should be Pay. Even if it is just one cent, it shows respect for the modder who spent his time and imagination creating your favorite mods. And all mods should be encrypted. If a person spends 1,540 hours creating a mod, and then is generous enough to share it with other players, he should have the right to decide how it is used and shared.

      And the better the community treats modders, the more mods there will be. Paying for mods encourages modders to spend more time on higher quality mods!

      The post was edited 5 times, last by Dogface ().

    • I have never released a mod and I'm no talented modder.

      If you want to encrypt mods then you either need to create a tool that modders can use to encrypt their mods, or hire someone to encrypt the mods
      Creating a tool will require some time, you need someone to spend time on making once it has been made you need to distribute it and here comes the problem if you distribute it freely then everyone can get the tool that lets you encrypt the files meaning they can rewrite it to decrypt it meaning your mods will no longer be "safe".
      If you hire someone you need to make sure that you always have the money to pay his/her wages and thats not something you do as a brand new small scale company.

      So imo encrypting mods is just a bad idea that wont lead anywhere.

      The best option way to keep your mods "safe" is to upload them to mod sites like modhoster where people can find your mods and download from and not to some random mod site

      As for the paying for mods part

      as I stated I'm no mod maker but what I am is a person who has been spending the last 8 years of my life moderating forums and chats and helping administrating forums and websites and I have NEVER asked anyone to pay me for spending my free time doing something I like and enjoy, and I would never ask someone to pay me for it. I have moderated for a one twitch streamer who had a monthly stream day where everything donated to the channel went to the moderators as a thanks for doing it and I and the other moderators did appreciate the gesture but the majority of us didn't do it for the money. Personally I only did/do it because I enjoy it(there was of course those moments where you had to do something that you didn't like having to do but thats life).

      Now some of you might say "but moderating is the same thing as making mods for" and yes you are right, people can't steal my work as a moderator as they can steal the work of a mod maker, but they can still suck the joy out of what I do sometimes which I would say is pretty similar to having someone steal your mod. Spending hours upon hours making a mod only to have it stolen by someone sucks because you spent so much time and effort in making that tractor or that script that makes a random hurricane destroy all your crops but it also sucks spending hours upon hours each day doing something to keep your community clean and try to do something to make the community become tighter and excited only to have them all turn on you because you someday have to turn into the big bad mod and ban someone who is well known among the members...

      Phew I went a bit of track there but what I'm trying to say is that when you do something in your free time that you want to give to others for them to enjoy, be it making that nice looking new TIM trailer or what ever it is then I don't think you should demand that people throw money at you but asking people if they would be willing to donate a small amount if they enjoy your creation is in my opinion a far better way to go.

      I would like to say more on the subject but I'll hold off for now

      Do please keep in mind this is my personal opinion and how I look at things and if you think differently then feel free to respond to this but I do ask that you keep any response clean and somewhat constructive :D

      Cheers

      i5 4690k - 3,5 Ghz, EVGA gtx 1070 ftw hybrid - 8 gb vram, 16 gb 1600 Mhz ddr3 ram
    • ^ what he said as well I was going to talk about that in my post but I decided to leave it out, because I need some time to formulate that subject :) but yeah basically what ShadowWolf said, I'm willing to donate money to mod authors who's mods I like but I wont use mods that I have to pay for and I would like to refer you to the skyrim incident

      i5 4690k - 3,5 Ghz, EVGA gtx 1070 ftw hybrid - 8 gb vram, 16 gb 1600 Mhz ddr3 ram
    • respect = pay for mods?

      Sorry,that is soooo <X
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    • ShadowWolf wrote:

      Sorry, but if I have to pay for each mod I don't use mods.

      If a modder will control his mods he has to keep it privat.

      This stupid rights on mods are senseless. The only "person" witch realy have rights is the company that desigbs the vehicle.
      In my experience, "everyone" are prime examples when it comes to the theory of "yeah, sure I'd happily donate for a good mod". I've got nearly 100K downloads on my mods the past couple of years (steam workshop and 3rd party sites where I uploaded), and have not received a single donation. Yet my mods are among the top 10 most popular of its kind for these games I made them for.

      You're partly right. The original designers of the real life counterpart have of course got all rights to it. If I make a 3D model out of it, my rights are for the model and textures and other work that goes into making it a fully working mod, not the design of the mod.

      tgs_wort wrote:

      respect = pay for mods?

      Sorry,that is soooo <X
      I'm not saying there should be a definitive thing that everyone's got to pay to use every mod. But in my experience, donations don't work. Respect comes in many flavors. Such as saying "thank you", or other encouraging words. Disrespect starts the moment you tear the work I've done apart.
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    • Sorry, my english is (awful) not so good to write flawless, what i think.
      I use sure wrong words.

      I Play another game, with very much mods, and no one off the modder's won't donation and they don't share mods on uploaded or the like!
      The Community is not so......Money,Money,Money!
      They work for everyones Fun!!!
      ~6 Games other 17 years(in this community), and i didn't see anyone who want Money or use filehoster or the like.



      I work over 25years unpaid for amenity. Nobody from us want Money for helping other People!
      I think, share is a social Thing, NOT a Commercial Thing!
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      The post was edited 1 time, last by tgs_wort ().

    • Encryption doesn't work where mods are concerned. Setting aside that you'll never get a 100% secure encryption system going, the more of a hassle it presents to the customer, the more attractive bypassing it becomes. You know all those crappy download sites currently supplying FS17/LS17 mods? They WILL be looking at Cattle & Crops, and creating artificial barriers to the mods in the form of paywalls WILL drive players to those sites even faster.

      Furthermore, I'm no lawyer, but integrating any sort of protection/encryption system between the game and the mods might risk making Masterbrain a more involved party to the distribution of licensed brands. Also, I'd like the kickstarter funds being used on the actual game, not some encryption system that the internets will crack in a week anyway.

      I haven't modded before, but I'm seriously hoping to get a start with this game. I won't be under any illusions about the sanctity of what I make public.
    • Gees it's started all over again. Yea I do give a BIG thanks for a Great mod. THANKS tgs_wort your English is perfect " YOU DO IT FOR THE FUN N THE COMMUNITY" N thank you Jeytav for your efforts it must be a difficult job and to do it cos you enjoy it even more thanks. ALL I'm saying guys/gals is if you are in it for anything other than FUN N ENJOYMENT of playing a good game then ???? I understand the HOURS that you put in, my Friend makes maps for SPIN TYRES, N boy does it make me head spin. HE LOVES IT n knows what will happen as soon as it's up but he shrugs an says "Big deal If it's that good someone else needs to steal it COOL" Like you Mehve I may like to TRY some modding with this game and agree.
    • I use to be a modder for Farming-Simulator. You may have seen my name appear in the credits of a few mods and edits somewhere across the expanses of cyberspace. I've been a member of 3 modding teams. One fell apart because we did not have enough time to devote to making a quality mod. The other 2, however, fell apart due to a much more pressing issue: the FS community was treating modders like dirt. The thankless demands of the community made modding stop being fun, so we stopped. I persevered through the great modder strike / uprising that occurred after the release of Farming-Simulator 15. But the community did not learn, their demands got more ridiculous, and their respect towards modders further diminished. I too was eventually fed up, abandoned my projects, and practically disappeared from the FS scene.

      Two-ish years later at the beginning of 2017, I learned about Cattle & Crops. I was intrigued and immediately supported it. I hope this game will be different with an appreciable community. I would love to start modding again. Please do not give me a reason to walk away again. Respect is what a community needs. Encryption and paying for mods will solve nothing, but make it worse.
    • Johndeere167 wrote:

      I use to be a modder for Farming-Simulator. You may have seen my name appear in the credits of a few mods and edits somewhere across the expanses of cyberspace. I've been a member of 3 modding teams. One fell apart because we did not have enough time to devote to making a quality mod. The other 2, however, fell apart due to a much more pressing issue: the FS community was treating modders like dirt. The thankless demands of the community made modding stop being fun, so we stopped. I persevered through the great modder strike / uprising that occurred after the release of Farming-Simulator 15. But the community did not learn, their demands got more ridiculous, and their respect towards modders further diminished. I too was eventually fed up, abandoned my projects, and practically disappeared from the FS scene.

      Two-ish years later at the beginning of 2017, I learned about Cattle & Crops. I was intrigued and immediately supported it. I hope this game will be different with an appreciable community. I would love to start modding again. Please do not give me a reason to walk away again. Respect is what a community needs. Encryption and paying for mods will solve nothing, but make it worse.
      I have made mods for ETS2, Spintires, ATS, and FS17, and I experienced a similar disillusionment. I too pledged CnC because I hoped that modders would get some respect. But if this thread is any indication, CnC is the same, entitled gamers who see modders as unpaid suckers.
    • No, come on guys. I'm getting more and more the idea modders are always complaining... There was a threads somewhere on this forum about encryption on mods, where i replied too.
      IF you upload a mod, you share it to everyone, some people will be happy and use it, others will edit it and use it and others will make a shitty edit and upload it as their mod. That is what will happen ALWAYS, you can't prevent it. So be happy your mod is used and you didn't did your work for nothing.... You need to mod, because you like that, not because you want honour, or money... If you want money, get a job as paid 3d artist or something.
      I'm not someone who see modders as unpaid suckers, sadly i didn't publish any mod, but here you see my latest work:

      I finished the drawing of a veenhuis 14-2, a small silage wagon made in '90s and still used today sometimes in the Netherlands or in Germany:



      This is compeletely my own work, someone is texturing it for me, and then i will ingame it.

      I'm also working on a John Deere 1630, i used the cab of the ARM modding team John deere 1630 from fs13? And YES i asked permission and it will get released on their site if i finish it. Here are some pics of it:



      Why did i make them? Because i liked to draw them, and that models were not in game. I did not make them to get money or honour. I show your this pics so you can see that im not someone who is talking rubbish, but who tries to mod himself too.
    • Sorry!

      The art of using words from Dogface ist Respect for Gamers??? And i know the "respect for modders" initiative on modhoster.
      There is nothing to read, "pay for mods" = respect! Is say's only, that you don't steal a mod!!!
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    • So, I'm not a moder because i simply do not know how. I would love to start but as of now i have no time for it. Alltough, I think if we would have one reliable platform for modders to releas their mods to with a easy system where you can donate or just write a thank you comment that would be great! As of now for FS17 there are alot of sites with the same mod on. Maybe one day when i know more about programing i will start this site my self but that will take some time. If something is easy people will do it. Make it easy to find the mods made from the correct author and make it easy to donate and it will happen more then u think. (sorry for my bad english...)
    • Nybyggarn wrote:

      If something is easy people will do it. Make it easy to find the mods made from the correct author and make it easy to donate and it will happen more then u think.
      Excatly!

      I would suggest a simple thumbs up (NO thumbs down, just thumbs up) system plus a donation system. This would make it easy to show your appreciation for the modders work and when it comes to donating/tipping I think it's important to create a community that understand the importance of showing appreciation for what modders do. I might think it's better to ask people to tip. Like a one or two dollar/EURO tip.
    • Some modders finetune a mod from somebody else. As a example: a mod in Cities Skylines wich added some more roads didn't get any updates anymore. Someone "copied" it and republised it. He give updates with some new roads. I think this is the power of modding. If you can't copy any mods you can't learn from each other and you can't get mods working.
    • That a very good point MCPOLDER *thumbs up*


      It's annoying the hell out of me when modders wants to claim ownership over their mod. The fact of the matter is that they don't own it and it is not legally possible to own a mod unless you buy a licens from the company who owns the intellectual property you are modding.

      That being said: I think modders should be treated with respect, because they are a very valuable and important part of many gaming communities. I mod pretty much every game I play and it helps me to an even better experience.

      What I don't like is modders showing off their mods and tell people "these are privat mods" and then complain people are being assholes to them. You don't dangle cool toys in front of anyone and expect their praise when you tell them they can't play with them.

      I haven't done too much modding, I mostly mod maps and I have never released anything officially. I have only shared with my friends, because I use a lot of objectives and maps from other modders and I can't remember all of their names and I want to credit these people if I release. I have spend hundreds of hours modding though and I do understand the grind. If I where to release a mod I would not regard it my own anymore once it was out in cyberspace.
    • The word "RESPECT" is the important point.

      Most of the modders in FS thinkings that they own the mod.
      If they would have read the EULA they would know that they DO NOT OWN the mod. This is the reason why I don´t understand why MODHOSTER is deleting any mod as sonn as some people says the mod was "STOLEN".

      I can only say: Guys please read the EULA and licences of the programms you use.
    • ChiloopaBatman wrote:

      It's annoying the hell out of me when modders wants to claim ownership over their mod. The fact of the matter is that they don't own it and it is not legally possible to own a mod unless you buy a licens from the company who owns the intellectual property you are modding.
      Let's say you make a weekend journey to a remote location to find the perfect spot to take some photos. You spend a full day on the road looking for that perfect view to use as a backdrop for a photo. And finally, you find it. It's perfect. You do some test photos to find just the perfect angle and work out how you want it to be done.

      You go back home and start to search for someone who owns the brand new tractor you really like the design of. You do this, because the factory have not responded to your emails or phone calls. You finally find someone who happen to own the tractor.

      So there you are, a day's drive away from home, with a fantastic looking tractor, the lighting and atmosphere is just perfect. Within a couple of hours you go back home to polish the photo and post online in a specific community who enjoy this sort of photo of farming equipment, tractors, big machines..

      Aren't you the creator of that photo? You definitely own that piece of art, the craft that went into making it, regardless of where the design originated.

      --

      If the plan is to SELL the 3D model, you probably should get the legal stuff in order. But it's still your piece of art.

      I can tell I'm outnumbered with my opinions. I'm not saying I'm the best modder around, but I will for sure think long and hard about sharing any of what I plan to make. I'll sit and wait, see how this plays out.
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      The post was edited 2 times, last by OlaHaldor ().

    • The analogy is wrong and some modders seem to get this wrong about the ownership of mods.

      Let my try to give an analogy that fits better:

      Lets say you are a painter, but you don't own the materials needed to paint a painting. Then someone who owns the materials allow you to borrow their materials for free on the following terms:

      1. You can paint all the paintings you want.
      2. You can use them all you want.
      3. You can put them up where ever you want, whether that is only in you own home or somewhere public where everyone can enjoy them.
      4. You cannot sell the paintings, because you don't own the paint, the brush or the canvas.


      You might have put a lot of time and energy into these paintings, you might own the motive on the paintings*, but you still don't own everything else.

      * In the case of a tractor mod you don't even own the motive it is the property of the brand you are modding.

      The post was edited 3 times, last by ChiloopaBatman ().

    • OlaHaldor wrote:

      ...

      But it's still your piece of art.


      ...
      I don't see that aspect being contested much. I certainly agree with that part. What it means is another story. There certainly is a lot of disrespect towards modern in general, but trying to combat that problem by invoking pay models and encryption just muddies the waters and gives ammunition to the people who aren't giving proper respect in the first place.

      And I completely agree that you should hold back your work. We often tell each other "don't feed trolls". I think the same applies here - don't feed shitty communities with more mods.
    • ShadowWolf wrote:

      If I read thinks like this I can only say: Don´t play games witch supports mods.It woll always give stupid peoples who copy any mod and put it under his name on a website. Ignore this people.

      In generell I would prefere if CnC would support mods only over STEAM and an interface from the official website. No sideloading like MODHOSTER and other sites.
      Steam workshop is great for games that's only available on steam and that doesn't get updated that often because updates has a tendency to break mods and savegames. If this game was a steam only release and if they were going to make all previous updates available in the beta options then it would be fine. However in this case there is a steam and a non steam version which means the best option will be an integrated modhub in the game using this website as a host but I wouldn't be surprised if they use modhoster as the hoster for an integrated modhub if they go that route.

      About the who owns the mod it's true that the license owner of what you make the model after owns the brand BUT I still believe that the person who creates a mod deserve credits for making that mod and they deserve our respect for making stuff that not only enhances our enjoyment of a game but also increases the lifetime of a game.

      I'm against being forced to pay for a mod I want to use BUT I'll do whatever I can to protect mod authors mods from being stolen.

      i5 4690k - 3,5 Ghz, EVGA gtx 1070 ftw hybrid - 8 gb vram, 16 gb 1600 Mhz ddr3 ram
    • I'm again and again reading about respect, but in my opinion the problem is this kind of games are played by a lot of kids. They behave like they are kids, so they ask for making mods and don't act like a matured person. Stop complaining about ppl demanding for mods pls, they are just kids, they dont understand what they're asking. And so what? If someone ask something like that, just ignore it, that isn't that difficult, isn't it?
      And about ownership, i agree with the points made above.
      When you make a mod and you publish it, you don't own it, and it should be great if a mod improve when more ppl work on it. That should be a perfect community, in my opinion 99% who download a mod doesn't look in the credits who made they mod, they just want a nice mod. Of course it's nice if you ask permission to publish, i will do when i can.
      I say: stop all that complaining, and start enjoying making new mods!
    • Folks who have the ability and patience to create mods, hats off to you.
      Folks who take these mods and then change them and call them theirs, well, wannabe"s?

      I have had several game save files corrupted by updates from the developer, when using mods in game.
      I no longer use mods in any games because of this. (have never achieved the same level in those titles after loosing original save game)

      I do buy all DlC for a title when it is released, if a mod was made and then sold as DLC then I would have the confidence that a game update would would not break anything, and that updates to the DLC if necessary would be done by automatic updates.
    • I understand the amount of time that it takes to create a mod. I understand the frustration that occurs when something you have been working on for a long time is release to the public before it was intended to be used. Although to me i mod for the fun of modding. I love to create things and nothing makes me feel better then seeing people enjoy what i have created. I do not need paid to mod, i have a job, modding is a hobby for me. So I will always carry on with my point of view which is. Anything that i create is free to be used by anyone, you can alter it and even re-upload it if you would like. I would like to be in the credits but its okay if i am not. I typically create buildings and objects so and i remember when i was starting out making maps and i would never release it by the time i had it finished because i could not remember where everything came from or who created what. So for all map makers it is not necessary to give me any credits.

      I hope to be able to continue modding and carry over my modding to CnC.

      Best of luck to all Modders and Players

      Craig - CBJ Midwest Modding
    • CBJ Midwest Modding wrote:

      I understand the amount of time that it takes to create a mod. I understand the frustration that occurs when something you have been working on for a long time is release to the public before it was intended to be used. Although to me i mod for the fun of modding. I love to create things and nothing makes me feel better then seeing people enjoy what i have created. I do not need paid to mod, i have a job, modding is a hobby for me. So I will always carry on with my point of view which is. Anything that i create is free to be used by anyone, you can alter it and even re-upload it if you would like. I would like to be in the credits but its okay if i am not. I typically create buildings and objects so and i remember when i was starting out making maps and i would never release it by the time i had it finished because i could not remember where everything came from or who created what. So for all map makers it is not necessary to give me any credits.

      I hope to be able to continue modding and carry over my modding to CnC.

      Best of luck to all Modders and Players

      Craig - CBJ Midwest Modding
      Exactly, making mods should be something you do for the enjoyment of using them yourself and seeing others enjoy using them in their games.


      Nybyggarn wrote:

      Another thing i hate right now with fs17 mods is People who upload too uploaded.net.. I guess it's their way to try to make people to "pay" for the mods bit i do not what to bit something from that site.. don't trust it att all. Here once again you could finnd a better way!
      If people want to upload them to websites like that then thats fine with me but I wont download mods from those sites not because I'm against modders earning a few cents but because they limit you to how many files you can download at a time, on uploaded it's 1 every 180 minutes.

      For the modders out there I suggest you take a look at the modders on nexus and take a look at some of the most popular mods of all time
      Like SkyUi, if we assume they uploaded those mods to uploaded they could have made about 700.000 USD 300 shy of a million but they didn't.
      A quality road map which could have brought in 400k
      Immersive armors which could have brought in 435k

      Even better is that pretty much every single mod there is safe because there is no need for anyone to "steal" a mod and upload it somewhere else because Nexus is where you go to get your dose of TES, FO and others game mods and that is what we need in the simulator part of the gaming community a mod site that caters to all the big games(and small) and that youtubers, streamers and others refer people to, to get their mods not by having sites like Fs-uk, Modhoster, American Eagle mods and all those file hosting sites which are basically just copies of each other.

      The way to do that is to spread the word and get the founders and current owners of the biggest simulator mod sites out there to talk with each other and join together under one banner, one true modding nation, where modders can upload their mods to without having to worry and where the users can get support to the mods they have downloaded and report bugs.

      i5 4690k - 3,5 Ghz, EVGA gtx 1070 ftw hybrid - 8 gb vram, 16 gb 1600 Mhz ddr3 ram
    • Jeytav wrote:


      >>>
      The best option way to keep your mods "safe" is to upload them to mod sites like modhoster where people can find your mods and download from and not to some random mod site
      >>>
      The construction of those random mod sites is very simple, they pirate mods away from sites like modhoster and fs-uk, and re-upload them on file services that offer advertisement money every time a file gets downloaded. You can't do anything against this really